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wondergimp
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 929
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 Posted: 10/17/07, 12:06 AM Post subject: Any Electr |
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Simple yet complex question.
In electrolysis of water, what is vital in effective separation of the H20 molecule? Voltage or Amperage?
Let me know what you think. |
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Spyrorocks
Fusion Laser
Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 293
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 12:18 AM Post subject: |
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Um I tried to make hydrogen once.. I used a AA battery and 2 Nickles. It didn't make any flames when I tried to light it though...
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NairB
Wicked Lasers God
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 2004
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 12:33 AM Post subject: |
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Both are as important as each other, however, the movement of charged particle electrons (-'ve), consider this as current will connect to the hydrogen releasing hydrogen gas. This is a "reduction" reaction seen at the cathode.
Similar happens to the oxygen known as "oxidation" reaction seen at the anode.
So the movement of electrons which can be considered current (amperes being the SI unit) is vitally important IMOH. If there is no particles, there is no amps although millions of volts may be present.
In summary, Voltage measures a "desire" for charged particles to move, while current (number of amps) measures the actual number of charged particles that are moving (per second past any point). 
Hope this helps wondergimp
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Rasel
Wicked Lasers God
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Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 1177
Location: Oregon, United States
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 12:48 AM Post subject: Re: Any El |
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| wondergimp wrote: |
Simple yet complex question.
In electrolysis of water, what is vital in effective separation of the H20 molecule? Voltage or Amperage?
Let me know what you think. |
HUGE waste of time. Putting zinc in water is much quicker (full 12" balloon in a minute I think) and more effective, but it deos cost money.
From one place: "All you need is 1/2 test tube of ... all hydrogen, which takes about 30 mins to get with 18 volts of battery power" |
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Spyrorocks
Fusion Laser
Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 293
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 12:50 AM Post subject: |
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OK, so when do I get to make hydrogen powered bottle rockets?
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shikari_rock
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 979
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 7:45 AM Post subject: |
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| Spyrorocks wrote: |
| Um I tried to make hydrogen once.. I used a AA battery and 2 Nickles. It didn't make any flames when I tried to light it though... |
Don't count on that! I used 16VDC at 2A and I did get enough to make a boom inside the chamber. |
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MarioMaster
Fusion Laser
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 307
Picture(s): 44
Movie(s): 7
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 10:34 AM Post subject: Re: Any El |
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| Rasel wrote: |
| wondergimp wrote: |
Simple yet complex question.
In electrolysis of water, what is vital in effective separation of the H20 molecule? Voltage or Amperage?
Let me know what you think. |
HUGE waste of time. Putting zinc in water is much quicker (full 12" balloon in a minute I think) and more effective, but it deos cost money.
From one place: "All you need is 1/2 test tube of ... all hydrogen, which takes about 30 mins to get with 18 volts of battery power" |
don't you mean putting zinc in acid? zinc in water won't do much... |
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Rasel
Wicked Lasers God
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Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 1177
Location: Oregon, United States
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 2:16 PM Post subject: |
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Water does work, but yeah putting it in hydrochloric acid is better. I doubt anybody has HCl unless they have a pool or something of the sort though (like me  ).
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thecheat
Wicked Lasers God
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 10/17/07, 5:07 PM Post subject: |
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... Add salts or something to make it easier to seperate...
I'd say voltage to some extent, (probably 50v) and then it's more important to have lots of amps.
Millions of volts with no amps won't do a bit of good, but neither will .5v with lots of amps! You have to work with the resistance.
A=v/r Amps = volts / ohms
or
ohms=volts / amps
So, if you only have so many volts, and a set ohmage, there's only so many amps you can squeeze.
It doesn't do any good to have a 30000000000Amp 5v powersupply if you're trying to shock someone! the amount of current that will be passed is negligible.
So, get the amount of ohms as low as you can go in the water (such as adding salt or Sulfuric acid... ECT) and pump as many volts as you can get, as long as you can push the maximum amount of amps (first equation will work for that)
So, if you can supply 100v and the water has 100 ohms, you can pump up to 1 amp in there. 2 if you have 200v, 3 if you have 300v... ECT
The idea is to get as many Watts as you can.
Watts=volts x Amps
PS: I filled a trash bag once (used the aluminum and lye method) made one heck of a boom! (also burnt a fair amount of hair...  I accidentally let air mix with the hydrogen so it exploded rather then burn)
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shikari_rock
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 979
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| Posted: 10/18/07, 6:26 AM Post subject: |
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| thecheat wrote: |
| ... Add salts or something to make it easier to seperate... |
Don't do that, you'll produce Chloride gas, which IS deadly, and mixed w/ hydrogen it forms HCl in your lungs. |
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thecheat
Wicked Lasers God
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 10/18/07, 8:00 AM Post subject: |
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hey, I know that! You've just got to be careful WHERE you're doing it!
breaking just water up with electricity doesn't work very well at all. Inefficient in the extreme... and besides that, water is a non conductor.
you have to add catylists. Try epsom salts...
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shikari_rock
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 10/18/07, 8:03 AM Post subject: |
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| Well you've got to be patient to get pure O2 and H2. |
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wondergimp
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 929
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| Posted: 10/18/07, 4:55 PM Post subject: |
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Nair and Cheat, you both bring up very good points. I've been trying to figure this out without experimentation, but now I think its time to see. For starters a high voltage, low amperage PSU. 10Kv.
I'll let you know how things work. |
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NairB
Wicked Lasers God
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 2004
Location: Scotland
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shikari_rock
Wicked Lasers Master
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 979
Picture(s): 34
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| Posted: 10/19/07, 6:25 AM Post subject: |
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| wondergimp wrote: |
| For starters a high voltage, low amperage PSU. 10Kv. |
 I didn't know you need THAT much! |
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